Elite: Dangerous

[lecrop]

Ya han liado el pollo, han anunciado que no habrá offline, los kickstartianos están que trinan, menos mal que yo ya he aprendido y no pongo un duro por adelantado ni en el bar gracias al MWIF

[jubriqueno]

Ya han liado el pollo, han anunciado que no habrá offline, los kickstartianos están que trinan, menos mal que yo ya he aprendido y no pongo un duro por adelantado ni en el bar gracias al MWIF

Yo las gracias se las doy a todos los que jalean a los desarrolladores con el manido argumento de que la IA no sirve para nada, pues resulta que a unos cuantos miles de potenciales compradores si que nos sirve.......otros 50 euracos ahorrados.



Pd. y si son tan buenos programadores y tan inteligentísimos lisensiados en el MIT ya saben lo que tiene que hacer....desarrollar IAs competentes.

[BShaftoe]

Pd. y si son tan buenos programadores y tan inteligentísimos lisensiados en el MIT ya saben lo que tiene que hacer....desarrollar IAs competentes.

Desarrollar IA decente, implica:

- O las reglas del mundo son simples (o tirando a simples) y el numero de entidades de IA a manejar es pequeñito
- O necesitas un ordenador de la NASA para moverlo en tiempo real
- O haces juego por turnos, donde que tengas que esperar 1 minuto o asi, pues bueno, no pasa nada
- O no vas a hacer IA, si no un conjunto de estrategias predefinidas, que pueden dar el pego de IA, pero que no se adapta y es sota, caballo y rey. Ojo, si te lo curras muy bien puede dar el pego de IA, pero sera eso, el pego de IA. A esto, formalmente, se le llama heuristico (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heur%C3%ADstica, ver parte de ingenieria)
- O te va a salir una mierda pinchada en un palo

No hay mas.

Ojo, no defiendo a Braben, aqui. Que es muy facil tirar por la calle del medio y decir "pues pasamos de hacer IA, y donde dije digo, digo diego", pues si. Esto que han hecho me parece una marranada. Puedo entender lo tipico, que sea desagradable decir algo asi, y lo vayas posponiendo, en parte pensando que igual puedes arreglarlo al final, y que luego te pille el toro y tengas que decir que no, pero sigue siendo muy poco serio, y espero que le devuelvan la pasta a toda la peña que lo pida. Total, el juego es bueno y creo que va a recaudar mucha pasta.

Pero pedir una IA con un tono como el tuyo es absurdo. Yo soy programador, y no voy diciendo "pues si los medicos son tan inteligentisimos y licenciados en blao, blao, deberian poder curar el cancer con solo desearlo muy fuerte, que para algo les pago via impuestos".

La Inteligencia Artificial es uno de los campos mas "chungos" de la informatica. Hay muchisimos mas juegos que tienen IAs malas que al reves, y los juegos que tienen IAs buenas

[Vik]

buenas, hasta que salga este o el star citizen, que juego recomendais, simulador espacial/de combate?

Me acuerdo de pequeño con el star wars tie fighter, que era wapisimo el andar cambiando la energia a laser, escudo, potencia, y poner los escudos delante o detras...

y que jostick recomendais?

[lecrop]

Bueno, al final he caído, era cuestión de tiempo. Ha mejorado bastante desde la última versión que jugué hace 20 años



No está mal pasar de un Uboot IIa a esto...

Aquí en el primer tuto:

[lecrop]

Estos son esos detalles de este simulador que me dejan con la boca abierta; vídeo de una nave topándose por sorpresa con un agujero negro ¿fin del viaje? ¿o principio?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7txixfOI0tE[/youtube]

[Capote]

A mí lo del solo online me ha matado. No he puesto pasta, pero lo iba siguiendo desde la distancia porque este tipo de juegos me gustan, y ya quería jugar a algo más que un X (sobre todo viendo como ha salido el último de la saga), pero con esta última maniobra no creo que lo compre; y le tenía ganas, porque su altenativa, el Star Citizen, viendo como se las gasta Chris Roberts, seguramente requiera de dos PC's mínimo para moverlo...
Espero que el hombre este rectifique y cree una IA, competente o no para el modo un solo jugador, que conocimientos estoy seguro que tiene de sobra para hacerlo.

[lecrop]

En este newsletter David Braben explica el porqué no será offline. Yo después de leer la explicación lo entiendo y lo comparto. Lo copio aquí.

Elite: Dangerous Offline Mode - Q&A
From David Braben:

Each of the “Elite” games pushed the boundaries of the technology available. With Elite: Dangerous a major new feature is playing online, and we are pushing that hard now. Offline support was not one of our original aims, though we did believe we could support it at the start of the project. We do a great deal of processing in the cloud, and this benefits everyone playing. We had considered that an online connection is a reasonable pre-requisite for a game delivered online. I am really sorry this has upset people, but we have a strong, consistent vision that we do not want to compromise.

Below we have collected common questions from backers and the press and our answers so we can be clear about the situation.

Can I still play in single player mode?
Yes. Some people have thought that dropping 100% offline play means there wouldn’t be a single-player mode - to be clear, the single-player game is already there, but it requires a low bandwidth online connection for the reasons we explained.
I’ve even played on a laptop using a tethered connection on the train.

When was the offline mode dropped?
The decision was made recently, and was not made lightly as we have been looking for ways to satisfy everyone. We announced shortly after we concluded that it wasn’t possible to create an offline mode without unacceptably compromising the game.

Offline-only support was a requested feature during the Kickstarter – why was it dropped?
Back during the Kickstarter, we were clear about the vision, to make a phenomenal new sequel to Elite in an online world, which we believe we are about to deliver. At the time we believed we could also offer a good single player experience, and base an acceptable offline-only experience off that. As development has progressed, it has become clear that this last assumption is not the case.

Why wait so long to announce this?
In retrospect we should have shared the fact that we were struggling with this aspect with the community, but we were still trying to find a solution. As features were implemented, for the best results we chose to prioritise delivery of the online single and multiplayer experiences, with a view to providing the offline version later in development. We had to make a decision for the good of the game, and that is what we did.

What would you lose in offline mode?
We have developed a multi-player game with an unfolding story involving the players, and groups collaborating with specific objectives and taking account of all player’s behaviour. This is what the game is about. Without this it would not be the rich gaming experience that we will deliver, and would be a great disappointment to all players.

Any offline experience would be fundamentally empty. We could write a separate mission system to allow a limited series of fixed missions, but that would still not be a compelling game, and is just the first step in the mountain of work that would be required.

Do you now consider Elite: Dangerous to be an MMO?
Technically, it has always been. There are already over 100,000 people playing in the same world. We believe that always-online entertainment is already a reality for the majority. We are delivering a truly huge game using the best technology and designed to stand the test of time, played for many years to come and still be relevant.

What do you say to people who backed Elite with an offline experience in mind?
Many of the conversations we have had during development focussed on backers wanting to play the game without the downside of online – griefing especially – ie a single player experience. We considered this to be the main issue and focussed on making sure we had a great single player offering. We have also ensured that the solo play mode has a minimal network requirement(about 10 kbps).

Are you confident the servers will be stable come launch day?
Yes, as confident as we can be, because we have been testing our servers throughout the development process, and continue to do so. Our servers are the same ones that Amazon uses, and can (and have) scaled up quickly to deal with demand when needed.

What is Frontier's plan for when the servers shut down?
We do not plan to shut the servers down, but understand it is a reasonable question. We are at the beginning of the game not the end and are focused on creating a game that we hope will be played for many years in the future. We do plan to take regular archives of the game and the servers, to preserve the game for the future.

Could the server code be released publicly some day when the servers are shut down?
Yes. This is something we would do if for whatever reason we cannot keep the game going.

Will offline mode ever be implemented? Why not create a second "offline galaxy" with different secrets than the online one?
It is not out of the question we will create a cut-down game that is offline only, but this is not currently in our plan. It would still be a big undertaking to do well.

Will you give people refunds?
We have started responding to requests where there is a clear outcome:
- Those who have pre-ordered an Elite: Dangerous release version from our online store and have therefore not yet played the game are eligible for a refund.
- Those who have already been playing the game online in the Alpha and/or Beta phases, regardless of whether they backed the project via Kickstarter or purchased access to Alpha and/or Beta through our online store, are not eligible for a refund.

We want to make sure we treat each person's situation with the thoroughness it deserves, and have contacted each of them to ask that they bear with us over the next few working days if their circumstances do not fit either criteria above as we look into individual requests.

Is offline mode an impossible problem, or just unfeasible?
It is a creative decision, not wanting to produce an empty game. It is technically possible, but it would be a largely separate game development.

Why not delay the decisions and put extra resources on this after the release?
We will review the decision after release, but our priority is moving the game forwards for the great majority of players, and are wary of producing a sub-standard game.

Was this because offline players are less likely to get involved in microtransactions? Is this just about the money?
No. We have been clear and consistent. This is about the game experience. I have always been against ‘pay to win’ – in a game like Elite: Dangerous there are a great many opportunities we could have taken already that would have amounted to ‘pay to win’ but we have chosen not to.

This whole issue comes down to what the vision is of the game we are making, and whether people trust us to make the right decisions. We made this decision with heavy hearts but for the right reasons.

David Braben

[jubriqueno]

Can I still play in single player mode?

Yes. Some people have thought that dropping 100% offline play means there wouldn’t be a single-player mode - to be clear, the single-player game is already there, but it requires a low bandwidth online connection for the reasons we explained.
I’ve even played on a laptop using a tethered connection on the train.

O mi inglés me está traicionando o este señor es un maestro de la ironía, pero ha sido leer este párrafo y comenzar a sonrojarme, y es sólo el principio de la parrafada, de "perlas" está bien surtida. Está que sigue también roza lo épico:

Why wait so long to announce this? (Pregunta capciosa que algunos desgraciados nos hacemos)
In retrospect we should have shared the fact that we were struggling with this aspect with the community, but we were still trying to find a solution. As features were implemented, for the best results we chose to prioritise delivery of the online single and multiplayer experiences, with a view to providing the offline version later in development. We had to make a decision for the good of the game, and that is what we did.

Por favor Lecrop......de acuerdo en que consumir o no consumir es una elección libre pero que nos tomen por tontos.....

Pd. Tiene bastante sentido del humor el hombre este.....

[lecrop]

Yo solo comparto la información, no creo que se trate de un asunto de tontos o listos.

De todas formas, en ese "Por favor Lecrop... que no nos tomen por tontos" hay un tufillo de condescendencia que no me gusta nada. Te pediría por favor que no me incluyas en tus comentarios en la medida de lo posible.

[jubriqueno]

Oído cocina, aunque veo que no te molesta tanto la condescendencia la de ciertas empresas hacia los consumidores (kickstarters)....

Por cierto, lo que tu interpretas como condescendencia no es más que pasmo ante la actitud de una persona que vive el mundillo, tu, ante la sarta de gilipolleces que ha escrito ese señor.....se repite la historia del World in Flames.

Pd. No me pienso callar ni una, no le doró la píldora a ninguna empresa porque no me da la gana.

[jubriqueno]

Y si, estoy cabreado porque jugué al Elite mucho, no se merecía este remake ni esta putada para los fans...

[lecrop]

Tú mucho oído cocina, pero insistes en pretender darme lecciones. Para tí la perra gorda.

[BShaftoe]

Y si, estoy cabreado porque jugué al Elite mucho, no se merecía este remake ni esta putada para los fans...

Hombre, el remake es una gozada. Yo ya lo he probado y el juego está de puta madre. Pero va según gustos, claro.

[lolopedo]

Sale mañana mismo ¿no?.

Ya direis vuestras impresiones.