La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

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Nomada_Firefox
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La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por Nomada_Firefox »

Creo este tema para guardar esta información que es bastante interesante y da una idea bien buena de como son las cosas en la actualidad. Ademas seguro que todos tenemos una opinión buena. De momento han sido 3 respuestas de Sulla en CC series, si alguien no entiende algo, que pregunto y se lo traduzco, igual con tiempo, lo traduzco todo.
Hmmm...

Slitherine NEVER bought CC from Matrix, its was not Matrix's to sell!

The interface TBH is in CC1 to CC5 getting better. You have to remember that Microsoft were heavily involved until it went to SSI, thats why the interface has ALWAYS been so great! MS would not let a game out without lots of thought going into the UI.

Slitherine are in NO way interested in CC or making CC better, just more sales! The new maps and UI look pretty awful. Not sure how many of you remember Squad Assault, but even there we kept as close as possible to the CC UI, because it worked. If it aint broke don't fix it!

The next iteration of CC [new engine] should be like a cross between TW and CC. The stat level on CC always sucked. We need a decent strat layer, with movement, supply, build up of units, logistics, fuel, real integration between SAI and TAI, maps and deploy that make sense not boxes. We have the best tactical game invented so far, much much better on a tactical level than Total War. But CC is topped by a game of chequers. Knowing Keith and how Red Phoenix was developed, I would say MS had an awful lot to do with CCs Dev. Aslo, Doug Walker was on the team then. Eric Young was actually hired by Keith as a historian, nothing to do with design. CC as we know it was far more of an accident than design. Keith Z just got lucky.

Now though, its time for CC to move forwards, its not gonna happen with Slitherine. Steve has himself [1 Programmer] and 2 Graphic designers. Thats not a recipe for an awesome new game. Given Slitherines turnover its paltry indeed. Trust me I know the figures!

Sulla
When we found the source code, it was sitting in Keith Zs Garage, in 2 mouldy CD holders and several non working HD's in a falling apart cardboard box. The code we got off those disks and HD's was so bad and so full of useless commented out crap, that it took way out past CoI just to clean the code up [get rid of all the crap in the code, it still referenced CC1 and DOS in CC5] NOTHING had ever been taken out of the code, just commented out! It still had the code for CC2 Mac in the CC5 code! The biggest part of those releases was getting to a point where you could make changes and start to do things. Also do you think we had a road map from Doug and the old designers, telling us what everything did? What was useful, what could go etc?

The idea with CoI was to get the modding community as part of the game. Why did we include mods, MMCC, a plugin installer? A plugin creator? Is there an updated plugin creator in any version after CoI? Any easy way of creating plugins for CC in any of the later releases.

We spent a ton of time making improvements. I still have the fix lists! You have no idea. A pretty bold statement. Really Stalky? You of course could do much better? Clueless....
The reason we got the code was that we got Destineer and Atomic out of the crap with the USMC. The USMC had paid Destineer 3.6 Million to develop a FPS that was supposed to link with Atomic s Red Phoenix and be playable on both levels. Atomic got 3.5 million for their part in designing Red Phoenix.

Around 18 months into development of RP, [Atomic were developing their own engine] they realised the engine was not gonna work. So they had to start from scratch and used a modular existing engine. [This was when Mick Conmy - Mic_Xe5] went to work for Atomic. At that point we realised just what a mess RP was. At a meeting in Orlando at I/TSEC the inter-service simulation conference Keith brought RP and everyone realised it was 3.5 million gone with some junk code to show for it. I think the last build is actually on CSS, I know its on CSO.

Atomic had used almost of of the 3.5M up and there was nothing to show for it. Destineer took Atomic over and signed us up to use the existing CC code [which we had been using to make changes in CCM for the USMC] to build and deliver 2 things to the USMC so they would have something to show for the money spent. Destineers FtF, the USMC said they could not use, it was eventually used as an anti drug Sim, which in the end the USMC said "we don't have a drug problem WTF do we need a drug trainer for?" But At lest it was viable and Destineer had a saleable commercial product in First to Fight. That still left major holes in the USMC contract with Destineer/Atomic as part of the SoW [Statement of Work/Requirements] in the contract required an Anti Terrorism capability in CC and a JTAC [Joint Terminal Attack Controller] capability.

We got the code because we produced an AT version and a JTAC version of CC. The AT version utilised 3 sides, asymmetric warfare, placing of IEDs and a whole raft of new stuff. Do you know what we got to fund the development and deliver these 2 products? 9 months and $80,000 for AT and $80,000 for JTAC. [Out of a total of 7.1Million between Destineer/Atomic] That's the money we had to develop CoI with and AT + JTAC. We struggled like hell to get payments out of Destineer to carry on work on both AT/JTAC and to develop CoI. We were always behind on payments to everyone as we simply could not get our payments on time. It was the perseverance of Steve and everyone that got CoI out of the door. The funds we got or should have from Matrix were to develop CC further. We had even discussed taking on an intern extra programmer to work with Steve. [Based on what we would be getting from sales of CoI]

The split that was worked out was 25% to Simtek 25% to Matrix and 50% to Destineer on sales of all re-releases. It was up to Matrix to publish. Simtek to develop and Destineer to collect royalty. Simtek NEVER got 25% from Matrix. I got ill and Matrix took over the entire code/source etc while I was out of he picture ill having had a heart attack and other major health problems. When I was better, none of what had been planned had taken place and Matrix had effectively subsumed my company. Matrix was taking their own 25% [which was not bad for the little they had to do] and my companies 25% giving them a 50% of all sales. At this point any payments to me ceased. I had NEVER signed code or company over to Matrix, but while ill, they had taken everything over. I left it to Dave, who was I thought a friend to look after for me until I got better. He did that ok! Since then I have received nothing for any release, I never sold the rights to CC to Matrix or sold my company, my company was NEVER signed over to Matrix. BUT Matrix had carried on paying the devs and added some from the CC Community. CoI sold MUCH MUCH better than anyone had expected, but I got sod all from the sales. Less than 2% which stopped after abt 12 months.

Matrix then got into major difficulties partly resulting from a lost lawsuit and other things, which meant they needed a buyer. Slitherine came along and bought Matrix, a major asset of which was CC. CC crosses the border between hardcore wargame and casual gaming, which makes it a much better seller than traditional hex based games. We within Simtek had wanted to develop a new engine and build an entirely new CC. Still top down. I have desihn docs by Luer / Atilla / Mick and others to this end. BUT, due to the appalling cash flow, non payment by Destineer and Matrix, we were bolloxed. Matrix had effectively stolen the company while I was ill, Dave was busy bad-mouthing me and the rest of Simtek to everyone who worked for us while I was ill. t was then part of the sale to Slitherine. Neither company ever paid for it and I am on welfare!

My dream had been to 1) get the code. 2) Clean it up and develop a re-releases with fixes and mods, as well as win XP/Vista/7 compatibility. 3) Use the re-release money to develop the next generation CC. But that meant realistically Steve needed help, new engine, more graphic designers etc. We had even discussed this with Steve and everyone. Matrix put a stop to that. I was even told while I was ill, no more re-releases were being worked on as they were not worth it. [before I had seen CoI figures] and the next release was already being worked on.

I am left with heart probs, kidney and blood/iron probs living on welfare, while everything I worked for was taken from me. I am shortly to go into hospital again as my heart is playing up.

Matrix and Slitherine dont care about CC in any way shape or form as I do, I got into the CC scene as I loved the game, I worked for a long time to get the code, it took me 4 years to work the deal to get it. I wanted to use the CC community to make CC better. So despite NEVER paying for it or me signing over any rights, Matrix and Slitherine have carried on selling the re-releases, making a ton of money and paying zero for it! Only now are they even making any attempt at a new engine and thats with Steve working on 2 games at once with 1 or 2 graphic designers working on the new engine!

There is much much worse and much more than this that Matrix did to me and others, but I am not going into that!

Next time you feel like telling me how I could have done better, know WTF has gone on Stalky.

I still have the source code up to LSA, and the finished build of JTAC, but effectively what use is it?

Why do you think I am using part of my welfare which hardly leaves me enough to bloody eat to build CSO? on a decent fast, dedicated server in the UK? Because I have no interest in CC? I know Matrix/Slitherine will eventually dump all the mods and maps and it will only be here and CSO that has the files! We are already finding files, mods maps that were about to be lost. I don't want that to happen. As CC1 thru 5 is already up on abandonware sites, have toyed with the idea of putting them online for download.

Oh and after we delivered CC AT/JTAC to the USMC after losing the 7.1M to the Destineer/Atomic projects, the USMC sensibly moved to Use VBS.
"Nada escapa a mis dominios".
Clan Nomada - Comunidad Close Combat Hispanohablante
FirefoxCCMods Web Site
(http://www.FirefoxCCMods.com es mi web personal con mods ademas del Close Combat del Empire at War).
Nomada_Firefox
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por Nomada_Firefox »

Supongo que más de uno pensara lo mismo, mi opinión personal es que el dinero corrompe. Asi mismo no creo mucho de Sulla, se que nadie trabaja gratis y por ello todos sus "amo los CC" son papel mojado. Desde el principio solo han querido controlar todo referente al juego y hacer el mayor beneficio posible. No es que los culpe, es la realidad.

Asi mismo cuenta que el hizo la empresa de Simtek y que Slitherine les ha robado. A mi me parece que si el hubiera tenido algo realmente, eso no hubiera pasado, por lo que doy a entender, no tenian un duro, matrix puso la pela, hicieron las reediciones y ahora han abandonado su idea para hacer algo nuevo sin contar con el porque no creo que firmase nada que le diera autoridad. Seguramente porque Sulla no vio que su idea de las reediciones, ganar dinero y hacer algo nuevo no progresaba mucho y el tiempo estaba pasando.

La verdad parece un culebron tipico de esos de dos amigos montan una empresa y acaban enfadados. Y a mi como cliente me la refanfinfla mientras pueda seguir comprando los productos. Es más nunca me gusto lo que hizo Sulla. El habla de que esta rehaciendo CSO, pagandolo de su bolsillo, todo mi bonito, pero tio si tanto te cuesta, lo que sobran es sitios gratuitos, iguales o mejores que ese, hace 14 años era entendible pero ahora......creas una carpeta en skydrive y la llenas a reventar sin problemas con los mods.

Tambien el dice que Matrix y Slitherine mandaran a la basura todos los mods, la verdad, en todas las comunidades, los mods son administrados por los creadores de los mods o gente fuera de los juegos, Slitherine no tiene nada que hacer ahi y viendo el foro de matrix, no es que vayan contra los mods.

En fin que de Sulla me fio poco. Me gustaria saber la opinión de Steve que no se si seran las mismas personas realmente. Pero si fue verdad, me alegro que Matrix pusiera fin a sus planes de hacer dinero con las reediciones y mejorar los CC porque francamente eran una basura de planes de cara a los clientes que somos nosotros, nos hubieran vendido reediciones durante años y no hubieran hecho nada nuevo. Vease que Panthers in the Fog que por fin añadido las caracteristicas como meter soldados en vehiculos, graficos de 32bits y más equipos cuando rompieron con lo que dice Sulla. Aleluya digo yo.

Con razon ahora es un reinicio y seguramente primero veamos el Bloody First que sera a su manera como el CC1, el siguiente que se parecera al CC2 por añadir una operación con una especie de mapa y al final volveremos al juego con el mapa estrategico pero con un motor y unas caracteristicas actuales. No una basurilla reciclada que no hay por donde cogerlo.

Por lo demas para el que no lo sepa, Simtek tenia un juego llamado Close Combat: Marines y sacaron el Close Combat: Modern Tactics de este, en ese juego ya sabian meter soldados en vehiculos y poner 20 equipos, e incluso un multijugador de 2vs2 pero todas estas cosas se las guardaron y las fueron "vendiendo" a cuenta gotas.
"Nada escapa a mis dominios".
Clan Nomada - Comunidad Close Combat Hispanohablante
FirefoxCCMods Web Site
(http://www.FirefoxCCMods.com es mi web personal con mods ademas del Close Combat del Empire at War).
nomada_squadman45
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por nomada_squadman45 »

No te olvides de aquel CC que sacaron para el ... SAS??? bueno, era una CCmarines pero para los ingleses.

La verdad veo mucho "la culpa no es mia yo amo a los CC" pero bueno, hace años que se pedia un reboot de la saga y no seguir alargando la agonia.

A ver si el CC redux aprende de los fallos de su ancestro y no se repiten las mismas cagadas.
"Non vi sed arte, No por la fuerza sino por la astucia", LRDG
"Lo mejor en la vida es estar borracho, y lo segundo mejor es estar salido" Tyrion Lannister, Poeta.
Nomada_Firefox
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por Nomada_Firefox »

nomada_squadman45 escribió:No te olvides de aquel CC que sacaron para el ... SAS??? bueno, era una CCmarines pero para los ingleses.
Hicieron este, el The Road to Baghdad y CC: RAF Regt que supongo es el que dices tu. Y cuando leo lo de Sulla, alucino la cantidad de dinero que los militares invirtieron en esta gente, seguro que tenian un tio general porque sino es increible lo tontos que eran.

Añado aqui una respuesta de Sulla donde cuenta más.
First off, please bear in mind, I started from the community. CSO started off as the first major site to host the mods ans maps. This was way before I even setup the domain closecombat.org . Many of the files would have been lost forever as they were all hosted in small sites which gradually all shut down. Its nothing to do with control. ClubSSI hosted a few mods, but that died fast! I ran MGO and Wargamer as well as CSO, MGO hosted files, but as soon as it shut down all files hosted were lost. I fought to keep the MGO domain going so the sites and mods would stay online, to no avail. It goes back so long now, god I was young when CC1 came out. TBH, if we had gone to maybe Paradox to publish the game, we would be in a much better position than now. But I had worked for Matrix and knew Dave [thought I did] so trusted him.

Keith is not a programmer and a crap designer. Keith had $3.5 million to develop the next gen CC, but what did we get? Not even a playable game. The Red Phoenix that is online for download, that's what he came up with. Nothing, a total POS. Eric Young has Cancer and was anyway only ever taken on at Atomic as a history expert. Doug Walker was the project manager, he was the one who made CC shine! Him and the NASA AI specialist. The AI was and is still unique!

What I and most of Simtek wanted was to make CC as good as we had always wanted it to be. Just like you we knew/know the weaknesses. Why if they could be fixed would they be left? There were a lot of fixes went into every version, whether obvious or not. You say we were enthusiastic about CoI, would you not be? This was our as much as anyone elses dream come true. But given the severe funding crisis and time, we were lucky to even get it out on sale. The fix lists were enormous. Steve worked through them week after week. Steve is one of the best programmers I have come across, he is also a really nice guy! The problem with the current engine is you change one thing to fix something which breaks something else. When we first got the code it was almost impossible to tell what did what and what was actually obsolete. Steve spent a good SIX months, just cleaning the code up, so it was possible to start using it and making changes! You try anf fix pathing or crawl of death and introduce other problems. Thats why we wanted to do a new engine. But Matrix was losing money, my company was simply taken over by Matrix. Dave immediately fired everyone apart from Steve

Steve at this point knows the CC engine better than anyone, even Doug or the old [Atomic programmers who coincidentally worked on EYSA]. Steve is Steve aka The_Blood, he and I are most certainly different people. I am English Steve is American lol. I remember how shocked he was when we first got the code. You have no idea! Steve used to work for Microsoft, developing for them. He is VERY good and when it comes to CC, as devoted as any of us. Don't you remember who made up Simtek? Ross [Future] Han Boss [Attilla] Eli Precht [Luer] Steve McClaire [The_Blood] Andrew Williams [Schrecken] Shane Cameron [Southen Land] Randall Grubb [Snr_Drill] Jim Martin [Oddball] Mick Conmy [Mick_Xe5]. Given the modding experience in Simtek, don't you think we all wanted what you wanted? If we had a CC Hall of fame don't you think most of them would be on it? I only found out about 3 or 4 weeks ago that Matrix paid poor Shane $5 a map for all the LSA maps! The moment Matrix was involved any hopes of using the money to fund development of CC was gone. If Matrix was willing to treat me as it has, how important do you think future development of CC is to them?

TBH, I think the ONLY way CC is going to get where it needs to go is if the community gets involved and builds an open source version that's locked down tight so no one can sell out to any company. Its owned by all the developers and contributors. Yes I have source code for CC, I have source code from CC1 thru to LSA. I was out of the picture and so disillusioned with CC, with games and everything, its taken me years to even get back to a place where I can think of CC without nearly having another heart attack. That was my dream, to use CC, the rebuilds and make a new CC. 25% would have paid more than enough for that, but no, Matrix had to take that away from me too! I have so many CC design docs done by Luer, Attilla, Mick etc.
Lo siguiente era una respuesta a esto que dije yo previamente aqui http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/mo ... c&start=30
Nomada_Firefox escribió: About save the files, at this moment, the point from center everything at one site paying the server....I find it non-sense option, you can use skydrive, google drive or one thing very ignored by most of the CC community, Moddb but I feel how you want control everything...., I know because I have my own site and I like control where are all my mods but of course I do not pay a server at UK, it would be a waste of money. My server is in the west coast from U.S, it is cheaper and I save my files at other free servers. It is enough for this. At other point, I have my H-D for save the files forever.
Sencillamente le dije que en estos tiempos sobran sitios para subir ficheros, el comenta en su respuesta que son inutiles, cosa que no comparto, lo unico que no consigues asi, es controlarlo todo que claramente es lo que el quiere.
Nomada, all of those sites are a rip off, I know about ModDb and other sites, I even tried the cheap US server as recommended by Mooxe, but found them them useless, at least in my case. I have a solid server, with incremental 5 minute backups. I am not going to lose files. If you are hosting with anyone, cloud, skydrive etc, you have NO guarantee that they won't go under. The amount and number of different technologies we have seen in the last 15 years, the only safe way is to have them on a decent server with backup. Me and KG have already found loads of mods that were missing, unfinished or on the verge of vanishing. Its got sod all to do with control, but I would hate to see hundreds if not thousand of hours of work that has gone into any mod lost.

Honestly, having been involved in CC and wargames in one way or another for the last 15-20 years, the ONLY way forward for what we want out of CC is community based. The money has gone to Destineer, Matrix, Sitherine, Atomic. Keith Z was violently opposed to modding in any shape or form and Slitherine are no better than Matrix. I know how much they make and what is put back. Do you honestly think Slitherine is any better than Matrix?

Nomada, Squad Assault is almost funny enough to be a parody. I will tell you about it in the next post. Honestly you would not belive GIC and EYSA lol!
Esto de aqui debajo es otra respuesta.
Nice one Stalky,

When you don't control the money coming in from the sales. You lose control of the entire project.

I lost control when Matrix published CoI. CEO is pretty meaningless when you have zero control and are not getting paid. Added to that I was ill and got iller. At that point Matrix who were supposed to look after CC for me, look after my company, shut me out of my own company stopped paying me and totally ripped me off. [NOT ONLY on CC!]. I guess when Dave at Matrix said keep your friends close and your enemies closer he considered me an enemy! Some mate he turned out.

CoI was far from a rusty car! Stalky, I am sure given the same chances you "could" have done much better. Really I lost everything I had dreamed of doing because I got ill, which allowed Matrix to simply subsume Simtek. I had pretty much zero influence after CoI. It took so long and was such hard work to even get the code, you have no idea how much seeing Matrix do what it has kills me. Thats one of the reasons I left CC for so long. Just utterly fed up and depressed, was very ill. I had had enough of being ripped off by so many people.

It was a major blow to me finding Ryans Forum gone!

Its very easy to say in hindsight, this should have been done or this. Hindsight is a great fixer :)
"Nada escapa a mis dominios".
Clan Nomada - Comunidad Close Combat Hispanohablante
FirefoxCCMods Web Site
(http://www.FirefoxCCMods.com es mi web personal con mods ademas del Close Combat del Empire at War).
daklegion
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por daklegion »

Siempre se me quedo grabada una frase del mitico Uberdave que decia que Sulla era una persona grasienta;)
Tambien dice que va a poner un link con CCRAF para descargarlo todo el que lo quiera.
Si entras en la pagina de csosimtek veras que solo esta el y srechken que no hay señales de vida desde hace 2 años.todos sus amiguetes se han esfumado vease nembo.xe5 .senior drill y demas palmeros.
Muy interesante lo que dice..sobre todo lo del codigo fuente y un super cc que hizo uno de la NASA;)
Siempre lo he dicho..recuerdo un post de un tio en ccseries.net y fue el siguiente..un tio puso unS screens diciendo que habia modificado cc a su antojo..yo con mis ojosvi que habia mapas sin limites..super grandes.eran 4o 5 mapas juntos y habia miles de soldadps y tanque luchandp a la vez..aquello fue impactante para mi la verdad...habia sangre por donde miraras.
El tio llego a poner un link de descarga fe su beta..yo desgraciadamente llegue tarde y este post al final fue borrado vilmente..me imagino por mooxe
Tambien vi otro post con videp incluido en ccseries de in tio que modifico cc y los vehiculos giraban en redondo como los coches...misterio siempre se borran esos post;)
Sulla me da poca confianza pero mooxe tampoco es trigo limpio o stalky que tambien sera administrador y podra borrar cosas de la web
Nomada_Firefox
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por Nomada_Firefox »

Ja estas son las ultima respuestas. Ahora habla de hacer un kickstarter y que pongamos el dinero todos......
I have actually thought about Kickstarter. I really do think that working together is the way to go. ALL of us.

When I did the initial mail out from CSO, I got several replies from programmers. What we need is a design. Like I said I have several design docs, by several people. Anyone who wants to read them can. I do however think we need a private forum, anyone interested can sign up. Its just if we or anyone here wants to do this properly it needs to be away from Matrix/Slitherine or anyone else! Open ource once we start and have a project, but until then it would need to be the community and not open to Matrix etc.

I just want a better CC. There are hundreds/thousands of free game engines of all kinds out there. We are really looking at the simplest type of game engine as we still want to down. CC as Mick_xe5 wrote HAS to be top down.

Theoretically I own or my company owns the rights to the code, it was NEVER signed over to Matrix, ergo Matrix had no right to sell it or my company to anyone, but I have learned to be VERY wary. Dave stole far more than just the CC code from me. So now I think it has to be community based. To keep it safe from people like Matrix and Slitherine. I think if we started it would take on a momentum of its own. I know Luer and Attila are gone. But there are still people about! Tszjid? Mafi? Nomada? Platoon, I am sure we can find graphics guys. I was looking at how many have gone, but there are still guys around. We would need a project NDA, but with the aim of going totally open once we are under way. Southern Land told me that he has made his last map after his pc died and he lost all his most recent.

Game engines now are very different from way back and some are very modular. What we need is a clear overall vision. We set a project manager, design team, graphics team, programmers. A test team/head. If we started with an organization/structure of some kind, then you can avoid the chaos. Look at the huge projects that are completed as open source. I know how the industry works. It really is no different than creating a mod! Think about it! With the exception, that you have a clean slate, a good reference model and a good design! I think it has to be community based. To get all we want out of it. I fought to get the code, I wanted what we all want. The problem is that within the framework of the existing engine its essentially not possible. We can go at our own pace. There used to be a CC Open source project. Anyone remember? That was one guy!

Its either do it ourselves or wait for Matrix/Slitherine to deliver. I have been waiting an awful long time now! I want the community to own the game. Lok at the mods for the game, some are truly amazing.

I am pretty sure some of the older modders will be back at some point, the community is far from dead! Our whole world is being taken over by one thing or another and we are left with less and less. Forums are vanishing because of Social Media sites. Sites about history and people are vanishing as Wikipedia becomes the arbiter of all knowledge. [We cannot even add Simtek/CSS/CSO to wiki]

I really think think that community based is the only way we will 1) get what we all want. 2) Keep the game in the community and not be beholden to anyone! 3) Give the game multiple options so its possible to please a wide spectrum of players. In fact keeping it very optionable is one way of ensuring a great base game from day one!
Tambien en referencia a mi pregunta de si el no tiene culpa de nada.
Stalky, sorry mate, my mistake!

Nomada, I am not here to put up with guilt slinging. I started CSO up again purely so I could keep my beloved game alive and do something for the community again. I have tried to explain what happened.

I know how much of the blame IS MINE. Why do you think I have been gone for 4 years?
Y como no yo le he respondido con esto.
Do you want more money? I do not go to put a single coin at one thing which I do not see very very very finished and running. More ore 3 million of dolars for nothing........sorry but here at spain we have thousands of example as this at politics. Search at google "Castellon Airport", more of 150 millions of € for nothing.
Yo no pongo un centimo en un kickstarter sino veo una cosa super terminada y que pueda probar, si este tio que formo parte de unos equipos que gastaron dinero a manos llenas para no hacer nada en años, se pone a hacer esto, vamos, lo va a seguir su tia.

En cuanto a lo que dices Legion ¿para que queremos el RAF? no se si valdra de algo pero por mi pueden meterselo por donde quieran, cuando no les intereso, bien que se lo guardaron en el bolsillo y ademas ahora es una basurilla.

Si Sulla fuera sensato y no pensara en el dinero, si tanto amara el juego, yo creo que seria más logico hacer un mod de lo que hay y no meterse en cosas imposibles que suenan a sueño.

Respecto a Mooxe y Stalky, yo no puedo juzgarlos por borrar cosas de su web, yo tambien lo hago, ademas Mooxe borraba esos links porque fue el originalmente y seguramente sigue siendolo, quien subio muchos CC al burro y a los torrent pero lo pillaron infraganti y desde entonces tiene que borrar esos links pero si por el fuera.....pero bueno ni a ellos, ni a mi, ni a nadie me ponia a darle yo dinero para un Kickstarter.

Y menos como propone Sulla en su ultima respuesta que dice que hacerlo en privado con un motor gratuito, vamos es una cosa que huele muy mal, no digo que no puedan hacerlo en privado pero.......¿para que quiere dinero? puedo poner un monton de juegos hechos de un modo similar, que no requieren dinero y sino lo puede hacer asi, mejor que no lo haga, porque acabara destruyendo los CC y vendiendo un churro a la gente.
"Nada escapa a mis dominios".
Clan Nomada - Comunidad Close Combat Hispanohablante
FirefoxCCMods Web Site
(http://www.FirefoxCCMods.com es mi web personal con mods ademas del Close Combat del Empire at War).
nomada_squadman45
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por nomada_squadman45 »

Sulla, kickstarter??? hablamos del mismo que se pulio 3 kilos de dolares y al final no saco mas que un pufo que poco les falto para que lo mandaran a Guantanamo a el y a su banda de piratas???

Imagen

Si ya lo decio mi abuelo "ante el vicio de pedir la virtud de no dar" 8)

PD: el RAF es mas por coleccionismo.
"Non vi sed arte, No por la fuerza sino por la astucia", LRDG
"Lo mejor en la vida es estar borracho, y lo segundo mejor es estar salido" Tyrion Lannister, Poeta.
daklegion
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por daklegion »

ya si lo del RAF yo creo que lo suelta ahora que ya nadie lo va a querer na mas que para coleccionismo como dice squadman;)

este tiparraco es un mangante que quiere volver a pillar pasta..un ruiz mateos a la inglesa que quiere forrarse por dos veces con la pasta de la gente pero ahora no le va a salir la jugada;)

si quiere un nuevo proyecto que ponga el codigo fuente para que lo modifiquemos todos y veras como cada uno hace su CC a su gusto y luego los distribuimos gratuitamente a la gente para que se lo pasen genial que es lo que al final nos mueve a cada uno;)
Nomada_Firefox
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por Nomada_Firefox »

Totalmente de acuerdo y asi más o menos se lo dije, claramente no le gusto la opinión. No veo porque yo me iba a callar y creo que mucha gente tras leerle ademas ver lo que hizo hasta ahora opinara lo mismo. El dice que sin las reediciones los CC ya hubieran muerto, yo coincido que quizas si pero creo que deberian haber sacado un juego nuevo ambientado en otra campaña por el camino, si luego querian las reediciones, eso ya deberia haber sido material añadido.

Tampoco puedo negar que sacar una reedición cada año, hizo que la gente no hiciera mods, esperando al siguiente juego. Es que te quitaba las ganas, sobre todo si iban soltando las novedades como migajas.

En fin creo que este hombre ha contado una historia muy interesante pero no se que esperaba, sino hubiera ningun CC nuevo en marcha, seria de entender, si ademas no hubieran sacado todo lo bueno tras su marcha, más seria de entender pero es que creo que se ha ahogado en su propio jugo intentando parecer el herido de la pelicula. Yo creo que ahora debemos apostar por lo que hay en camino que es material garantizado, podra ser mejor o peor pero sabemos que esta ahi, todo lo que este tio ofrece son vanas promesas de un futuro mejor y eso me recuerda mucho a los politicos españoles.

Y sí Squadman, le dije comparación con Castellon, le debio de parecer muy bien. Sulla parece el Fabra ingles. Cada vez que pienso lo de los 3 millones de dolares, ¡dios!
"Nada escapa a mis dominios".
Clan Nomada - Comunidad Close Combat Hispanohablante
FirefoxCCMods Web Site
(http://www.FirefoxCCMods.com es mi web personal con mods ademas del Close Combat del Empire at War).
nomada_squadman45
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por nomada_squadman45 »

La verdad no se que espera ese hombre, cuenta que dispuso de un presupuesto amplio para los CC y al final que vimos??? refritos de los juegos de 10 años antes con leves mejoras... si espera reunir otros 3 millones me da que va a morir de viejo esperando.

En el tema de sacar para mantener con vida los CC... yo lo veo diferente pero en el fondo coincidimos, me explico, lo que hicieron con las reediciones para mi fue mas sacar por sacar sin afrontar una seria modernizacion de los CC... si lo que sacan en unos dias como CC Caen con todas las mejoras graficas y añadidos a la jugabilidad lo hubiesen sacado en digamos... 2007 en vez de la primera reedicion de CC3 pero como un juego totalmente nuevo con una batalla no anterior cubierta (incluso si fuese ya tocada en algun mod) seguramente habrian mantenido con vida los CC e incluso habrian atraido gente nueva por el efecto llamada de juego nuevo... siempre pense que les falto vision de futuro... si se hubiesen centrado en mejorar el motor para sacarle todo el jugo y dejasen la parte del juego (ambientacion, graficos ... todo lo que no es motor) a algun equipo de modeadores (que por las fechas hacian un trabajo bastante mejor del que nunca se hizo oficialmente) ahora la situacion seria muuuuuy distinta.

Imaginate en 2007-8 el motor final de los CC con el magnifico mod Stalingrad... joder, seria un caballo ganador aun usando un motor "viejo" seria un muy buen juego y tendria margen para explotar la idea en 2-3 titulos mas mientras llevaban por debajo el Nuevo CC...

El señor Sulla tomo hace mucho tiempo un camino y no puede ahora venir a decir que la culpa de todo es de los demas... solo le falta decir que es una conspiracion judeo masonica y salir asi

Imagen

Esta quedando muuuuuy mal si pensaba que le darian apoyo incondicional despues de lo que ha contado... es para decirle que tu no compras habichuelas magicas sin denominacion de origen :mrgreen:
"Non vi sed arte, No por la fuerza sino por la astucia", LRDG
"Lo mejor en la vida es estar borracho, y lo segundo mejor es estar salido" Tyrion Lannister, Poeta.
Nomada_Firefox
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por Nomada_Firefox »

Bueno Sulla sigue a la carga, ahora ha contado su versión del Squad Assault entre otras cosas. Segun el, en Squad Assault tenian dos programadores que se llevaban mal, suena a una historia de Star Wars donde Han Solo tiene dos androides que reparan el Halcon y se llevan mal uno con el otro, asi que no reparan nada. :mrgreen:

El caso es que pare quien no lo sepa, el juego fue hecho por una compañia de Eric Young, llamada Freedom Games pero primero hicieron para Strategy First, el G.I Combat, el cual probe durante la beta y era una ruina con jugabilidad cero, de hecho sabian que era malo pero strategic first tenia que pagar a Freedom Games y saco el juego pese a todo. Todo por la pasta.

Luego Eric Young y su amigo Sulla que fue productor, hicieron Squad Assault una vez más con el G.I Combat, un clon de un juego injugable. Luego para colmo hicieron una tercera versión, tan mala como la primera. Son los reyes del milagro de los panes y los peces.

Luego tambien comenta que su empresa Simtek es la dueña del codigo y que matrix nunca le pago, cuenta algo de que le dio un ataque al corazon por el camino y que en ese tiempo de recuperación matrix hizo nuevos juegos sin darle nada a el. No se que pensar, no me creo nada, creo que si tuviera derechos reales con un copyright real, le hubieran pagado, cosa que creo que no tiene simplemente. Seguramente ademas, matrix puso todo el dinero y el simplemente chupo, cuando llego slitherine, vieron lo que habia, hecharon a los vagos y se quedaron con el resto. Ahora el tio se siente estafado.

Dice tambien que Steve esta haciendo Bloody First con la ayuda de solamente dos diseñadores graficos y que no es un equipo suficiente. Yo pienso que todos podemos ver lo que el y sus amiguetes hicieron con mucho más, asi sacaremos en conclusión que no tiene ni idea de hacer buen juego y que un equipo grande no es mejor. Ademas Steve esta haciendo el juego que parece bastante avanzado ya, con un motor que todos sabemos que funciona. No es un churro hecho con restos.

Tambien más tarde Manoi le ha dicho que Bloody First esta hecho por 5 personas, asi que tampoco es que Sulla sepa todo. Claro esta, lo han hechado de matrix.

Otro detalle, el no quiere darnos el codigo de los CC que dice que es suyo. El quiere coger un motor de esos que hay por ahi libres y hacer un juego nuevo. Quiere que se haga en secreto y que toda la comunidad le subvencione con donaciones. Vamos, suena a tongo total. Yo no necesito nada parecido, si quiero un CC para hacer mis mods, mañana mismo me compro el Gatheway to Caen y tendre una cosa que al menos sabes que funciona.
@DJ
Doug W, now works at DAS Entertainment. I have no idea why as his boss is a total Shithead! He has worked the as lead dev and project Manager for several years. They build military simulations which is where I found him.

@Nomada
Its hard as language IS a barrier. My Spanish is way worse than your English lol. With Squad Assault, where to begin?

We had 2 programmers who had totally opposite ideas of what SA should be. One would do one thing and then the other would undo it. Eric tried to get them working together as did I, but man..... ! We got to the point where we were passed our release date and we had to go gold. We decided we had to go gold and Eric assured us it would be ready and bugs fixed. Then 4 weeks before we went gold Eric vanished for 5 weeks. Turns out he had got a young girl pregnant and left his wife, which did not help us at all as everything was then on release schedule. Without Eric, we could not get changes made, fixes put in, etc etc. We had no idea of this at the time, we just new Our lead Designer had vanished. All we could do was fix what we could with the 2 devs, then patch it ASAP, hoping Eric would turn up. We had so many really good testers on that game, Sarge, Snr Drill, Boar and tons of others. But if no one is there to listen its kind of hard.

It was like that all the way through, Eric just kept vanishing for one or two weeks. He was knocking off this girl, which was where he was vanishing to.

It was so bad it was almost comical. But was also painful as lots of us had worked hard to make it better!

Squad Assault Second Wave had Doug Walker as lead dev, thats actually MUCH better, have you played it?
The source code, belongs to my company. I never signed it over to Matrix and never sold my company to Matrix. When I as ill, Matrix were supposed to look after my company, they took it over effectively. There were numerous contracts I never got paid for. Matrix laid almost everyone off apart from Steve. I did not find out until later, I was in hospital at the time. I had to have weekly venesections for almost 18 months, which is truly crippling. Then my hear gave out, 99% blockage followed by a major e-coli kidney infection. This was when the re-releases were going out and when Matrix cut me out of my company. I have no idea how, except that some kind of not entirely legal action was taken by Dave/Matrix and then refusing to pay me, for anything! So you can see why I am kind of bitter about Matrix. I got the code, brought to Matrix as I thought [Dave was a mate] to have him steal everything from me.

No Nomada, I am way past revenge or regret, what do you do? I made the choices, I only have MYSELF to blame! I am sure Steve will do a fine job on the next engine, but 1 programmer and 1/2 graphic designers is not boding well.

The suggestion of an open source project where everyone can do their bit and everything it completly transparent just seems a good way to get what we have always wanted. We have after all been waiting some 15 years on every release hoping - this time ....... But it never is is it?
"Nada escapa a mis dominios".
Clan Nomada - Comunidad Close Combat Hispanohablante
FirefoxCCMods Web Site
(http://www.FirefoxCCMods.com es mi web personal con mods ademas del Close Combat del Empire at War).
Nomada_Firefox
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por Nomada_Firefox »

No te respondi antes porque queria poner lo ultimo de Sulla. Sí, la verdad Squadman es que coincidimos bastante y la mayoria de la gente piensa lo mismo. Deberian haber sacado primero un CC nuevo, simplemente uno ambientado en una nueva operación, aunque hubiera sido con el remake del CC4, si lo hubieran hecho asi, hubieran cogido más impulso para sacar luego si querian las reediciones, a fin de cuentas hicieron nuevos mapas, un monton de material que es tiempo que podian haber usado en algo más novedoso.

Luego el otro dia Mooxe decia en el tema donde Sulla cuenta su vida, que el mapa estrategico fue modificado aleatoriamente con las preferencias de alguna persona pero sin ningun sentido, por eso ahora es enorme y no hay manera de sacar una visión estrategica complete.

Lo de mejorar el motor, me creo más a los de Slitherine que decian en la preview de Bloody First, como el juego era un desastre donde el codigo y la parte grafica funcionan separado y todo es bastante impenetrable ante cambios. Aún asi desde que lo cogio Slitherine, han hecho bastantes cambios, no se si para bien o para mal.
"Nada escapa a mis dominios".
Clan Nomada - Comunidad Close Combat Hispanohablante
FirefoxCCMods Web Site
(http://www.FirefoxCCMods.com es mi web personal con mods ademas del Close Combat del Empire at War).
Nomada_Firefox
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por Nomada_Firefox »

¿Te acuerdas Legion de ese mini cc que borraron en CC series hace años? Pues ahora Sulla va y lo publica en su foro http://www.closecombat.org/csoforums/vi ... =2&t=17556

Tiene gracia. Pero del codigo original de los CC nada de nada y en cualquier caso, todo eso como dijo Platoon_Michael sirve para nada porque no hay nadie con la capacidad para hacer algo.

Al final Sulla ha acabado insultandome por arriba y por abajo, como suele decir cuando la gente no es capaz de sacar argumentos y continua con insultos, muestran como son realmente. De hecho el tio entro en un tema de critica al gatheway to caen creado por mi para lanzar difamaciones sobre Slitherine y ya veis lo que acabo haciendo, si queria otra cosa, podia haber hecho un tema más normal. ¿No os parece?
"Nada escapa a mis dominios".
Clan Nomada - Comunidad Close Combat Hispanohablante
FirefoxCCMods Web Site
(http://www.FirefoxCCMods.com es mi web personal con mods ademas del Close Combat del Empire at War).
Nomada_Firefox
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por Nomada_Firefox »

Por si se pierde lo que escribio Sulla que es bastante instructivo. He guardado todo lo que dijo y las respuestas subsiguientes de todo el mundo aqui.
http://firefoxccmods.com/index.php?topic=1095.0

Por supuesto esta en la sección batallon psicotico del foro de mi web.

Por lo demas le mande un mensaje privado a Steve que igual en 50 dias me responde para preguntarle acerca de la realidad de las cosas y reafirmar mi interes en lo que el hace, interes más que nada porque al menos no son promesas basadas en sueños.
"Nada escapa a mis dominios".
Clan Nomada - Comunidad Close Combat Hispanohablante
FirefoxCCMods Web Site
(http://www.FirefoxCCMods.com es mi web personal con mods ademas del Close Combat del Empire at War).
daklegion
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Re: La historia de los CC segun Sulla, uno de los creadores.

Mensaje por daklegion »

Para ya hombre que le va a dar algo al mongolo ese;)
No me acuerdo macho!.me acuerdo de un proyecto basado en cc3 de corte guerra moderna..llegue a ver unas screens muy chulas hace años..como todo fue borrado.
Tambien recuerdo el proyecto de vonb basado en cc3 tambien..tenia una web creo que era www.closecombatie.com

Yo le di todo el material terminado y sin terminar a Sulla pero a Mooxe tambien se lo dare..asi lo tendra todo el mundo.Si vosotros quereis algun proyecto que tengosin terminar decirmelo y os lo paso.quizas ahorreis tiempo..
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